Welcome to the eighth week of the New Moon discussion series on TDM! For the past seven weeks, we have been re-reading New Moon, three chapters at a time. Next week is the last week of this discussion series, which will culminate with an analysis of the Epilogue on the very eve of the movie premiere, November 19th.
I promise you there will be no spoilers as far as the movie is concerned. That means pictures, videos, etc (any pictures placed in discussion posts will be from photo shoots, manips, etc.). That also means I will not tolerate any movie-spoilers in the comments at all. Any comments containing movie-spoilers will be deleted on the spot. This is a BOOK discussion. The movie discussion will only happen after the movie has been released. :D The spoilers that will be present in this discussion are solely related to the book. Please do not read the discussions if you have not read New Moon and do not wish to be spoiled!
To view the reading schedule for this discussion series, click here.
Joining me this week are the triple threat guest bloggers Marie, KG, and Cutie!
New Moon: Chapters 22-24
The Danger Magnet New Moon Discussion
Thursday Nov. 12th, 2009
Chapters 22-23-24
marie-kg-cutie
When the honor of summing up the final three chapters (sans the epilogue which will be next week) was given to marie, kg, and me (cutie) we were all completely humbled and blown away! The fact that Ana would trust us with such a huge undertaking was flattering to say the least. We’d like to take this moment to say: Thank you, Ana, for this fantastic discussion! It’s been a fabulous build up to the New Moon movie. Thank you for all your hard work and for just being the awesomeness that is you. Also thank you to all those who posted before us and those who have been so diligently reading and/or commenting each week. This truly has been sofa king awesome *gathers everyone into a group hug*.
And now, let’s move along with this discussion. Foxy brought our man back to us last week, *sighs* and now marie is going to start us off with a flight back home.
Chapter 22: Flight (by marie)
We’re brought into Chapter 22 with Demetri leaving Edward, Bella and Alice in the “reception area” of the castle to wait until dawn before they’re allowed to leave. As the three wait, Bella decides she will “pretend” that Edward still has the same undying love for her as she does for him, yet she constantly reminds herself that Edward will leave her again the moment they’re all safe. As Bella begins her freak-out over hearing the screams of the humans, Edward comforts Bella, assuring her that she’s safe, but she refuses to believe that Edward’s actions towards her were made out of love. Instead, she tells herself he is only relieved because they were alive, or because he wanted to keep Bella calm since they were clearly not out of harm’s way, but still within the confines of the castle. Bella says it best here:
“Edward stared right back at me, his dark eyes soft, and it was easy to pretend that he felt the same way. So that’s what I did. I pretended, to make the moment sweeter.”
As I was reading Bella’s thoughts and fears over Edward leaving again, I knew she was wrong, I knew Edward truly did love her more than anything else, and that he would stay with her this time. Why, you ask? Because he was willing to end his life when he thought Bella was dead and lost to him forever. Edward was desperate to find a way to kill himself or be killed, and this proved he could never live without Bella. In my mind, that is the definition of true love.
Through that night and the entire trip back home, Bella fights the sleep that is threatening to overcome her because….
Could you possibly blame her if you thought Edward was going to leave you?
She also has a list of questions for Edward of which she plans to ask during the plane ride to Atlanta. However, these questions are not heard until a later chapter because Bella is afraid to hear the answers — she’s afraid to face the reality of what they will bring. Being with Edward is Bella’s own personal heaven, but her heaven is fighting an inner battle with what she fears the most….Edward leaving again. This is why she purposely buys her time, which leads to those questions never being asked in this chapter. This one thought explains it all, and has your heart breaking for Bella all over again:
“I’d lived through a lot that should have finished me in the last few days, but it didn’t make me feel strong. Instead, I felt horribly fragile, like one word could shatter me.”
In the end, Bella won her fight against sleep the entire trip back to Seattle. Once the three arrived, they were met by the Cullen family, which also included Rosalie. Of course Edward was royally peeved with Rosalie since she was the one who told Edward that Bella had jumped off the cliff, which led him to believe Bella had killed herself. This is when we finally learn that Rosalie is capable of being a nice person. About time, right? Rosalie felt sorry for the horrible events that she had caused, and she wanted to make amends with Edward and Bella. However, Edward wanted to hear nothing of it, but Esme insisted the two should ride back to Forks with Emmett and Rosalie. Esme felt Rosalie should be given the opportunity to apologize to the both of them. This leads to the first moment when Rosalie actually speaks directly to Bella, she says:
“I’m so very sorry, Bella. I feel wretched about every part of this, and so grateful that you were brave enough to go save my brother after what I did. Please say you’ll forgive me.”
In Bella’s tired state, she replied:
“Of course, Rosalie,” I mumbled, grasping at any chance to make her hate me a little less. “It’s not your fault at all. I’m the one who jumped off the damn cliff. Of course I forgive you.”
The chapter ends with Bella safely back in her own home with Edward by her side, and they are met with a highly perturbed Charlie. Honestly, to say that Charlie is angry is to say the least. He doesn’t want Edward anywhere near his daughter and he tries to make him leave, but Bella refuses to let Edward go. Nevertheless, the last few days’ events have left Bella extremely tired with no energy to stay awake as Edward places her into bed. She’s scared that Edward will leave again and she’ll never get the answers to those questions that she so desperately needs to ask.
Does Bella get her answers in the next chapter??
This is where I leave you, and kg will take over in discussing, in my opinion, one of the best chapters of New Moon.
Notable Quotables From Chapter 22
“I knew it was stupid to react like this. Who knew how much time I had to look at his face? He was saved, and I was saved, and he could leave me as soon as we were free. To have my eyes filled with tears that I could not see his features clearly was wasteful-insanity.”
“That this moment would last forever, or, if it couldn’t, that I would stop existing when it did.”
“La tua cantante.”
“They have a name for someone who smells the way Bella does to me. They call her my singer – because her blood sings for me.”
Chapter 23: The Truth (by kg)
We begin Chapter 23 with Bella slowly waking after having slept 14 hours.
“My mind was dazed and slow; strange, colorful dreams–dreams and nightmares–swirled dizzily around the inside of my head. They were so vivid. The horrible and the heavenly, all mixed together into a bizarre jumble.”
As Bella begins to become more aware of her surroundings, she struggles to let go of him; her dream Edward. His touch felt too real and fearing her imagination would cause her pain later, Bella fights to wake up.
Seeing Edward next to her does not convince her that she is awake, by any means. In fact, she truly believes she has completely lost her mind.
“I’d forced it to get out of hand–pretty much stalked my hallucinations–and now my mind had snapped.”
Deciding to embrace the crazy, Bella begins to focus on how detailed her “hallucinatory” Edward. The voice, the scent, and the face were all very good, better then drowning even. However, she found it odd that this particular Edward wasn’t better fed like the ones previous. She tries to think back to the last thing she remembered. Did Alice really come back or was it a dream?
“I’m dead, right?” I moaned. “I did drown. Crap, crap, crap! This is gonna kill Charlie.”
Yep, Bella died. She is in heaven now. I know, no one saw that coming. It’s tragic really…
Okay fine, she didn’t die.
However, she is not so easily convinced that she is conscious. If Edward Cullen tell you that you’re not dreaming…you’re not dreaming.
“Sure, sure. That’s what you want me to think. And then it will be worse
when I do wake up. If I wake up, which I won’t, because I’m dead. This is awful. Poor Charlie. And Renee and Jake…”“I can see where you might confuse me with a nightmare.”
Oh Edward, you are so emo.
I’m beginning to think Bella is using her “ohi’msotiredican’trememberanything” as a way to put off the inevitable. What’s the inevitable you ask? Well, there are a few questions that need to be answered. Let’s start with the easy, less painful, if you will. Did that all really happen?
“If you’re referring to us nearly being massacred in Italy, then, yes.”
Yes, Italy really happened, which means….Edward really did try to kill himself, more on that later.
Bella asks about Charlie, who is still sleeping and has banned Edward from ever setting foot through the door again. This, of course, angers Bella because she’s an “adult.” However her thoughts take her to a darker place while thinking of why it really wouldn’t matter in the end when Edward leaves again.
What’s the story they will give to Charlie when he asks where she’s been? Edward’s got nothing, which is extremely helpful. Maybe Alice can come up with something is all he could offer.
Bella moves on to a more interesting and still less painful question, in the hopes of keep him talking. Now that she was safe at home, there’s no telling when he might leave again, which he obviously will because he doesn’t care about her. [Please insert sarcasm font. Thanks.]
Edward tells Bella that he had been practicing tracking, but wasn’t very good at it. Edward begins to apologize for leaving Bella with danger still all around her.
“Please know that I had no idea of any of this. I feel sick, sick to my core, even now, when I can see and feel you safe in my arms. I am the most miserable excuse for–”
“Stop [...]”
*holds breath*
Not wanting to be the reason for Edward’s pain or guilt, Bella struggles to find the words that will free him of any responsibility he may feel.
“This has to stop now. You can’t think about things that way. You can’t let this… this guilt… rule your life. You can’t take responsibility for the things that happen to me here. None of it is your fault, it’s just part of how life is for me. So, if I trip in front of a bus or whatever it is next time, you have to realize that it’s not your job to take the blame. You can’t just go running off to Italy because you feel bad that you didn’t save me. Even if I had jumped off that cliff to die, that would have been my choice, and not your fault.”
(Movie Edward says, “You don’t know…anything.”)
*hearts pounding*
Edward is shocked. How could Bella think that “guilt” was the only reason for his decision to go to Italy and ask for death? Of course he felt extremely guilty for leaving Bella, but that’s not all. Even if it wasn’t his fault that she died, he explains he still would have gone to the Volturi. Bella doesn’t understand, why should he care whether she lives or dies?
“I thought I’d explained it clearly before. Bella, I can’t live in a world where you don’t exist.”
*kg dies*
And Bella is confused. What happens next is nearly impossible to paraphrase. It’s one of the most beloved moments of the saga. Bella is near breaking as Edward begins to speak of that night so many months ago, and the worlds that negated all the rest in Bella’s mind. He explains that he is a good liar, but he never thought it would be so easy to convince her that he didn’t love her. He felt like it would kill him to do it, that it would be almost impossible to even plant the seed of doubt in her mind. But then, he could see that she truly believed that he didn’t love her.
“I lied, and I’m so sorry–sorry because I hurt you, sorry because it was a worthless effort. Sorry that I couldn’t protect you from what I am. I lied to save you, and it didn’t work. I’m sorry.”
*tears falling*
Bella begins to cry, and exclaims that she IS dreaming. Edward says,
“How can I put this so that you’ll believe me? You’re not asleep, and you’re not dead. I’m here, and I love you. I have always loved you, and I will always love you. I was thinking of you, seeing your face in my mind, every second that I was away. When I told you that I didn’t want you, it was the very blackest kind of blasphemy.”
*fandom dies*
“Why can you believe the lie, but not the truth?”
Bella tells Edward that it never made sense for him to love her. Desperate for Bella to believe the truth, believe that he really truly does love her, he tries a different method. Words didn’t seem to be enough.
Edward tries to prove it to Bella by kissing her, but she pulls away. When Edward realizes that Bella doesn’t want him to kiss her, he begins to think maybe it’s because she HAS moved on. Maybe she can’t forgive him for abandoning her; maybe she doesn’t love him anymore.
“Yesterday, when I would touch you, you were so… hesitant, so careful, and yet still the same. I need to know why. Is it because I’m too late? Because I’ve hurt you too much? Because you have moved on, as I meant for you to? That would be… quite fair. I won’t contest your decision. So don’t try to spare my feelings, please–just tell me now whether or not you can still love me, after everything I’ve done to you. Can you?” he whispered.
Of course Bella is still in love with Edward. And that’s all he needed to know. He kisses her, and her willpower crumbles. *angels sing* He promises that he will never leave her, but Bella doesn’t quite believe that. She doesn’t necessarily think that he is lying, but just that something else could happen to remind him why he left the first time. This is about the time Edward gets on his knees and begs for her forgiven…or at least that’s what he offers to do. I must say I imagine him on his knees saying the following,
“Before you, Bella, my life was like a moonless night. Very dark, but there were stars–points of light and reason… And then you shot across my sky like a meteor. Suddenly everything was on fire; there was brilliancy, there was beauty. When you were gone, when the meteor had fallen over the horizon, everything went black. Nothing had changed, but my eyes were blinded by the light. I couldn’t see the stars anymore. And there was no more reason for anything.”
*tears*
Edward was in pain… in agony, just like Bella. No distraction in the world could keep him from thinking of her. Everyday.
“My heart hasn’t beat in almost ninety years, but this was different. It was like my heart was gone–like I was hollow. Like I’d left everything that was inside me here with you.”
Bella, as we know, felt the same. Pieces of her were missing when Edward left. Still racked with the fear of getting her hopes up, she asks Edward about his “distractions” and what exactly he was tracking. We find out he was in fact tracking Victoria, but he lost her after she lead him down south. Bella is completely terrified, not only from the thought of Victoria, but of Edward leaving again to try and find her. Victoria isn’t the only thing that Bella is afraid of; her number one threat is the Volturi who will come looking for her eventually.
Which leads to Bella’s next decision. She hops out of bed and starts to get dressed to leave. Bella knows that her staying human is not only dangerous for her, but also for the Cullens. Determined to speak with the Cullens she heads for the door seeing that Edward isn’t going to help her get there. Not wanting to wake Charlie with the roar of her truck, she turns to the window (very clever Bella) knowing Edward won’t let her go jumping out of windows. He offers to give her a ride.
“Either way. But you probably should be there, too.”
“And why is that?”
“Because you’re extraordinarily opinionated, and I’m sure you’ll want a chance to air your views.”
And with that, cutie will close this discussion up with Chapter 24.
Notable Quotables from Chapter 23
“His irises were pitch-black, with bruise-like shadows under them. This surprised me; my hallucinatory Edwards were usually better fed.”
“I thought I’d explained it clearly before. Bella, I can’t live in a world where you don’t exist.”
“You’re not asleep, and you’re not dead. I’m here, and I love you. I have always loved you, and I will always love you. I was thinking of you, seeing your face in my mind, every second that I was away. When I told you that I didn’t want you, it was the very blackest kind of blasphemy.”
“Before you, Bella, my life was like a moonless night. Very dark, but there were stars—points of light and reason… And then you shot across my sky like a meteor. Suddenly everything was on fire; there was brilliancy, there was beauty. When you were gone, when the meteor had fallen over the horizon, everything went black. Nothing had changed, but my eyes were blinded by the light. I couldn’t see the stars anymore. And there was no more reason for anything.”
Chapter 24: Vote (by cutie)
“He was not pleased…”
*chuckles*
O Edward, if only you could see the future like Alice. *winks* But I’m getting ahead of myself as always.
Despite his obvious displeasure, Edward promptly takes Bella to his family’s home. On the way, we see a new Bella, one that does not cringe with fear as she rides on her vampire boyfriend’s back, but keeps her eyes wide open, her chin resting safely on his shoulder and her cheek pressed oh so sweetly next to his neck, as she enjoys the crisp night air. *sighs dreamily* (Isn’t it wonderful to have Edward back?)
Upon feeling Bella kiss him, Edward asks Bella if she has decided she is truly awake. The conversation that proceeds this inquiry leaves the reader with a mixture of emotions. For Bella finally reveals her deepest fears:
“I don’t trust myself to be enough, to deserve you. There’s nothing about me that could hold you.”
*sniffles*
The sadness Edward feels over this statement is felt by the reader even in this limited first person perspective. *dabs at tears* And when Bella further explains to him that she fears not death from the Volturi the most but Edward leaving her… *heart tears in two* Yet, no matter how tormented Edward becomes over Bella’s feelings of inadequacy, no matter how heart wrenching all these realizations are, I couldn’t help but think: “Wellll.. duh? What else did you expect her to think, Mr. Cullen?” And even this hardcore Team Edward fan’s thoughts errantly drifted towards a certain someone and pondered: But what about Jacob Black?
After some musing, Bella is hit with an epiphany. In a eureka moment she realizes that Edward must love her and had only left to protect her. That:
“As I would always belong to him, so would he always be mine.”
*becomes starry eyed* Who’s Jacob Black again? *winks*
But this moment of sugary sweet, over-the-top love does not sway the stubborn Miss Swan from her main goal: putting her mortality up for a vote at Casa De Cullen. With no fuss and no muss, the meeting is called, Bella stating her case and gaining an approval from all the Cullens save two, Edward and Rose (shocking I know). In a display of angst and anger, Edward’s internal struggle with Bella’s fate is shown in his erratic display of emotions. One can only guess at the internal struggle he faces – pain, excitement, love, heartbreak – but mostly he feels helplessly guilty. This moment was the reason Edward had left Bella behind, he left to save her soul and now… well… what he both feared the most and longed for the most was coming to fruition. To say he was torn in two and battling himself is an understatement. Meanwhile, the young Bella Swan only knows that she cannot live without her Edward and the reader is left to ponder if she truly gets it, if she tuly understands what she will be giving up…
And while the details are hashed out, and Bella’s fate is determined when she secures a promise from Dr. Cullen to change her after graduation, Edward is desperate to escape. They rush back to her place, where Bella sits on her bed and watches a very troubled Edward Cullen completely lose his too-cool-for-school demeanor.
What follows is a classic Edward and Bella showdown. A stony, unmovable vampire’s will versus that of a lovesick, headstrong, teenage girl. But Bella’s a little ahead of the curve, and while she might be young, she knows what she wants and she knows what she can’t live without: Edward Cullen. And this time around she’s going after forever and refusing to be delayed. Realizing she is unshakable, Edward gives in, and oh how I wish we could hear what he is thinking, because I think it would go a little something like:
Looking into the soft brown eyes of the sweetly innocent young girl sitting so trustingly on her bed before him, Edward felt his love for her explode within his chest. Heaven was sitting right before him, everything he had always wanted, but never dreamed possible. Why was he fighting so hard when he could have it all? And just like that, Edward Cullen let go. “Marry me,” he whispered, the words rushing from his lips of their own accord. His dead heart tightening, his mind reeling as he waited with bated breath for her response. Would she think he was too old fashioned? Her eyes widened as a blush swept across her beloved face, and he watched as her lips whispered softly the one word he longed for, “Yes…”
Okay sorry. *blushes* To much fanfic on the brain. But either way, Edward does ask Bella to marry him. And what does our lovestruck Bella say:
“What’s the punch line?”
*brakes come to a screeching halt*
Um… huh? Apparently someone has issues with marriage. And while Edward’s crushed, to say the least, he sees his loophole and persists. He is willing to change Bella himself, but at the “high-price” of marrying him. (Why, Bella? Why didn’t you just scream HELL YES! *takes a deep breath*)
Bella wakes up Charlie and blah blah blah… Let’s get back to Edward, who is now sitting in the rocking chair, right where he belongs and slightly disgusted with both himself and Bella. She is so willing to throw away her humanity, so eager for damnation, for lest we forget, Edward does not believe vampires have a soul… or does he?
“You know you don’t really believe that.”
“Oh, don’t I?” he fumed.
“No. You don’t.”
“If you really believed that you lost your soul, then when I found you in Volterra, you would have realized immediately what was happening, instead of thinking we were both dead together. But you didn’t – you said ‘Amazing. Carlisle was right.’… There’s hope in you, after all.”
For once, Edward was speechless.”
And when Bella professes that she doesn’t need heaven, that she only need Edward to stay, he vows:
“Forever.”
And my world is right side up again. Or is it?
Notable Quotables from Chapter 24
Option three: Edward loved me…. As I would always belong to him, so would he always be mine.
I kept my eyes wide, my chin resting on his shoulder, my cheeks against his neck. The speed was exhilarating. A hundred times better than the motorcycle.
I was a danger magnet; I’d accepted that about myself.
“Marry me first.”
“But you didn’t – you said ‘Amazing. Carlisle was right,” I reminded him, triumphant. “There’s hope in you, after all.” For once, Edward was speechless.
“Forever,” he vowed, still a little staggered. “That’s all I’m asking for,” I said…
A Random Stream of Conciousness From cutie:
There are so many unknowns!
And what about Jacob Black?
How do you feel about his complete disappearance from the last three chapters?
Where the heck is that skeevy Victoria?!
Does Bella really understand what she is getting into?
Will we ever truly understand why Rose hates her so much?
What about Edward? Would it be nobler if he just backed off and
left Bella to be human? Or does he deserve to get the girl?
How do you feel about Esme and Dr. Cullen’s selfish reasons for supporting
Bella’s change?
And WHAT ABOUT JACOB BLACK?!?
Does Bella seem different to you?
In what ways?
And how in the world will this ever turn out well?
Can Jacob find happiness?
Can Bella be truly happy, when she will break Jacob’s heart
and be leaving her family and friends behind?
And what about Edward Cullen?
If he changes her, can he really live with the guilt?
Will we see a vampy Bella?
AND WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH JACOB BLACK?
*winks*
**********************************************
A big hug to Marie, KG, and Cutie for writing this fantastic post! :-D
I loved Cutie’s barrage of questions and can’t wait to start answering them myself. I look forward to reading your answers! Please post your answers in a comment below. The recap will be posted on Sunday and your comment just might be featured, so be sure to participate in the discussion before then! :)
first off lets just clarify that even if edward could see the future he will never be as cool as alice
thank you !!!!!!!!!!!
what happened to Jacob black??? he had a best friend that is crazy……where did he go the last 3 chapters??? I don’t know but i would have been pissed, disappointed,and disgusted. i would have done the same. I wouldn’t talk to her if she went back to her emotionally abusive boyfriend.
where is Victoria? eating people,
does Bella know what she is getting into? probably she is in “love” thats all that matters *chuckles*
Will we ever truly understand why Rose hates her so much? here is a little fan fiction from me i like to think that until the baby rose was team Jacob. :)
Does Edward deserve Bella hell no!!!!!!!!! but she is tragic and really the two tragic people do belong together…
I always liked the idea of Bella changing, I’m glad Esme and Carlisle chose to support her I think Edward has a thing about always being right and in this case he wasn’t.
I didn’t think Bella seemed any different still clumsy and still madly in love, the only difference is she starts to play Edward. Using his wants to get hers.
Jacob wont be happy poor guy!!! a’lot of you loose respect for him in eclipse but lets not forget its Bella that cant leave him alone.
can Bella be happy leaving her life behind…. as long as she has Edward. she doesn’t think twice her mind is made up
I couldn’t care less if ed lived with the guilt I wanted to see Bella as a vampire.
I DON’T HATE Edward I actually have a’lot in common with him. but sometimes he just needs to grow a pair…. suck it up bro the girl you cant live with out wants to spend eternity with you awww poor guy!!!* being highly sarcastic* (and the fact that he gives her everything she wants makes me sick).
just fyi i do like Bella and Edward together!!!!!! i was happy when they got back together. the reason why i tend to lean towards Jacob is cause i relate to the poor guy!!!! i’m more anti Bella if anything!!!
TEAM ALICE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to say that I did not cry when Edward left Bella. Not a tear. I mean there were 4 books, so I knew he was coming back. Kinda sucked at the time, but not a tear. Then comes chapter 23 and I cried like a baby. “Sorry that I couldn’t protect you from what I am. I lied to save you, and it didn’t work. I’m sorry. But how could you believe me? After the thousand times I’ve told you I love you, how could you let one word break your faith in me?”
Boo Hoooooooooo!! And there it was, my heart broke. *tears dripping down my face* *hiccups* *hiccups* Oh, Edward, how you make my stomach hurt.
I was quite put off by Bella thinking she was dreaming. Seriously girl- He’s there!! He’s touching you!!! He’s telling you he lied!!! Shut the f**k up and kiss him!!!!! (sorry- I am way to emotionally invested in this thing!)
As for the Jacob Black aspect of this story- Jacob has no hold on me. He is a nonentity in my opinion. It has only been about Edward and Bella for me and honestly and maybe coldly, my mind never went to Jacob once Edward was back. The whole Edward thanking Jacob for taking care of Bella was heart warming and all, but I could have done without it.
Ok, so the vote. I like it. I think Bella was smart to sway the Cullen family to her side. I love that Esme and Carlisle consider her a part of there family. It show a normalcy that I think Edward discounts.
As for Rosalie, at this point I thought she was just a hateful bitch. Discounting what we learn in Eclipse, her explanation that she wished someone could have been there to vote no for her feels like crap to me.
Ok- my major problem with this book, and the next 2 for that matter, Bella’s hesitation to marry Edward. WTF??? Really? Come on!!! Bella has been pining for him for months and when he asks for her hand forever, she turns him down!!! Just now I almost threw the book again. I want to reach into the pages and strangle her. Does she have any concept of forever??!!
Oh goodness!! Sorry for the rant, but seriously I hated that part of the book and hated it even more in Eclipse.
I do want to say that although I have not commented each week, I have followed this discussion and am in awe of the smartness of those who write. Thank you for this. It has eased my anticipation and made me smile. You all ROCK!!! I can’t wait for the movie discussion!
*down on my knees- praying for the movie to not suck donkey balls*
XOXO- Rachel Z.
And what about Jacob Black?: I will answer that in a few minutes…
How do you feel about his complete disappearance from the last three chapters?: In a few…
Where the heck is that skeevy Victoria?!:
Yeah it’s like she suddenly disappeared! Although my guess is that once she caught scent of the Cullens, she got the hell out of Dodge. Or Forks.
Does Bella really understand what she is getting into?
I guess I’m confused about this question…what’s there to get herself into? At least from her pov. There’s the emotional aspect of turning ‘traitor’ on Jake and the pack…but I suppose at that point she just didn’t care enough or think enough about it for it to phase her (ha). She probably felt more protected by other vampires from Victoria and she thought she was ready to become one. So to her, there really was nothing to prepare for. (Not in this book anyway! :) )
Will we ever truly understand why Rose hates her so much?:
I figured that at some point they’d get around to either telling her, or the reason coming out somehow.
What about Edward? Would it be nobler if he just backed off and
left Bella to be human? Or does he deserve to get the girl?:
You know, I’m kind of torn on this one! I definitely think he deserves her, in the good and not-so-good ways. I think Jacob :cough: deserves her more, but she won’t hear any of that. BUT I think that I am equally split between Bella as a human and Bella as a vampire. I’d further explain why, but this is a New Moon discussion…not a Breaking Dawn discussion. (shudders at the thought of answering discussion questions for that story.
How do you feel about Esme and Dr. Cullen’s selfish reasons for supporting
Bella’s change?:
I didn’t really find them selfish. They want their ’son’ to be happy, and in their (or at least Carlisle’s) extreme wisdom- he can foresee how much happier Edward would be if Bella was changed. And no one wants their son to commit suicice over losing the girl they love.
And WHAT ABOUT JACOB BLACK?!?: Warming up to it…
Does Bella seem different to you?:
THIS is the question I’ve been waiting for…YES! Oh my gosh, yes!
In what ways?:
I think that Post-New Moon Bella is the first leap in to the Post-Breaking Dawn Bella. I wish I could say that she started coming into her own…but I can’t. Instead, she finds herself becoming entirely dependent on someone else instead. Now, one can argue the same about her relationship with Jacob-that she was greedy and needy and etc., but I believe there’s big difference between the two. In Edward’s case, there’s nothing Bella wouldn’t do to maintain his happiness and all (so she says). Whereas with Jacob, she’ll take and take, but doesn’t always give back to him-to maintain his happiness. She’s completely dependent on Edward now and it seems to seep into a lot of her dialogue, her thoughts and emotions too. Especially in later books, which really frustrates me.
And how in the world will this ever turn out well?:
Ha, good question. Since I’m sure most of us have read the remaining two books, we all know how it ends. Happy-shiny looking in from the outside. :squee!:
Can Jacob find happiness?:
I’ll hold off on my bitterness in this answer, ;)
I think he can, after years of healing. Of proper healing where Bella stays the hell away from him.
Can Bella be truly happy, when she will break Jacob’s heart and be leaving her family and friends behind?:
The way it should’ve been, yeah she would’ve had to leave everyone behind in order to have what she wanted. But alas, in true Mary-Suedom…everything was hunky dory in the end.
And what about Edward Cullen?
If he changes her, can he really live with the guilt?:
I think he would definitely be able to handle a little guilt. Especially if he got what he wanted in the end.
Will we see a vampy Bella?:
I figured she would be changed at some point…
AND WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH JACOB BLACK?:
ALRIGHT. lol.
Jacob was brought into the story to give Bella the secret info that no one else could tell her. Then in New Moon, the bond that seemed to lie underneath was turned into a best friendship.
I was very worried about how this whole thing would work into Jacob and Bella’s relationship…if they would ever recover. Guess we’ll see what’s going on in the epilogue!!
These comments are so wonderful! Thank you everyone! I can’t wait for the recap. =D
**heft eyebrows in anticipation** This is going to be fun.
I grouped the answers to the questions by character so my addle brain can try to keep up with Cutie’s stream of conscious. : )
Victoria:
I like this question, ‘Where the hell is Victoria?’ Well, since SM didn’t write it we get to add in our own interpretations so here’s my two cents. Victoria within striking distance of Bella on the beach at La Push but didn’t attack because both Sam and Jacob were present. I think she’s in the woods close to Bella’s house when Alice arrives and that makes her run off. Since we know Victoria’s talent is akin to self preservation, she’s likely thinking that the Cullens are all coming back and that will make it just that much harder to get to Bella. I think this is where Victoria leaves forks to develop a new(born) plan.
Rosalie:
Rose is guilt ridden over nearly sending Edward off the deep end out of her own selfishness and jealousy. And that’s really the reason she hates Bella, she’s jealous. She’s jealous that Edward fell for Bella and not for her, she’s jealous that Bella still has her humanity and she’s jealous that everyone in the family adores Bella, including Alice who sees her as more of a sister than she does Rose. But Rose is not all stone (yes, pun intended) because the way Bella demonstrates her selfless love for Edward has at least started to win Rose over by the end of NM.
Esme and Carlisle:
I never considered either of them selfish for supporting Bella’s change. I guess they were both trying to preserve their family. If the last seven months taught them anything it was that their family wouldn’t be whole without Bella. Edward would be lost without her and each of them had grown attached. I guess you could consider it selfish if they put their family first over Bella’s soul but since both of them believe in an afterlife for ‘good’ vampires then they’re not weighing her soul against their family. They’re weighing Edward’s and their family’s happiness vs. allowing her to grow old with Charley and die. As Carlisle says, ‘he’s chosen not to live without her and that doesn’t give him a choice.’
Bella:
Do I think Bella really understands what she is getting into? Yes and no. I think that by the end of New Moon she truly knows what she can and can’t live without. You read it in the things she said to Edward in Twilight like ‘I’m here…which, roughly translated means I would rather die than stay away from you.’ But now I think she realizes that there’s nothing she would give up to become a vampire that would be worse than an empty life without Edward.
If Bella is different I think it is in the way she looks at the future. I don’t think she’ll take her time with Charley for granted because she beleives there isn’t much of it left. I also think we’ll see a vampy Bella, because she’s ‘such a constant little thing.’ as Charley had described to Alice. Once Bella made up her mind to become a vampire, she committed to it and now she has Carlisle’s promise to change her.
The toughest part for Bella will be severing her family ties including and especially Jake. I guess that’s the selfish part of her (maybe it’s the human part too). Who wouldn’t want to have her vampire/Edward proverbial cake and eat it by keeping her family and friends too?
Edward:
Edward has a lot of making up to do. I don’t think he’s going to ‘get the girl’ by backing off and forcing her to stay human out of a sense of nobility. He needs to be open and honest with her to regain her trust otherwise she should leave him. I think Edward has a good soul and deserves to find love in his existence. My only problems with Edward’s character have been his manipulation. I want him to get the girl by showing her how much he loves her not by manipulating her. Frankly I thought Bella was insane for turning down Edward’s marriage proposal. **screams** What girl would turn him down?!??! She must be nuts. But now that I really think about it, if she had accepted, it would have been wrong. It would have been out of coercion to get Edward to change her. The way SM writes her acceptance in a later book after much more angst is better and it means more to both of them.
Edward already lives with a lot of guilt. He feels if he hadn’t come into her life she would have grown up and been happy, gone to college and had a family (see Midnight Sun) But he can’t change the fact that he’s in her life and they are both tied to each other so completely that one can’t survive without the other. So will Edward have guilt if he changes her, probably. But will he get over it if she’s ultimately happy, definitely.
And what about Jacob Black?
I have to agree with Rachel Z. during the first couple of reads I didn’t think twice about Jake after Bella and Edward got back to Forks. I was too busy drooling with happiness over their reunion. But realistically what more could Jake have done? Could he have stopped her? No, Bella wanted to go and aside from kidnapping her (which wouldn’t have gone over well with Alice) he didn’t have a prayer of keeping Bella in Forks. Could he have gone to Italy with her to keep her safe? No, Sam probably would have laid down the law as the Alpha preventing him from going and becoming a Volturi snack in the Palazzo dei Priori. [Can someone out there write a fanfic on Bella and Jake running through the fountain to Edward? I wonder how that one would turn out!] Truthfully, SM doesn’t give Jake many real chances to get the girl. He deserves happiness, and right now he’s competing for a girl who doesn’t love him the way he deserves to be loved. I think he didn’t imprint on Bella for a reason, because her soul belongs to Edward and Jake should be loved with more than Bella can give him.
And how in the world will this ever turn out well? Rhetorical answer, 1) its romantic fiction. 2) SM loves her characters and would never let anything really bad happen to them.
Each time I read the books I find something that I didn’t catch before. Now that the movie is only days away, imagine RP with that pained look on his face acting this out and delivering this quote on screen.: “He took my face between his two stone hands, holding it tightly while his midnight eyes glared into mine with the gravitational force of a black hole.
‘I will never leave you again.’ ”
First of all , thanks so much to everyone who was part of this wonderful discussion. Annie, this was such a wonderful idea and I hope we gonna discuss Eclipse? ;)
How do you feel about his complete disappearance from the last three chapters?
As bad as it seems, it didn’t bother me at all. I was just so happy Edward was back so I had not a second thought for Jacob..
Where the heck is that skeevy Victoria?!
Uhm, there was no place for Victoria in the book at that time. Honestly I didn’t care either at that time. But thinking about this twice, Yes where is she? Maybe she got the scent from all the Vamps coming back to Forks and then she left to do “You know what happens in Eclipse”.
Does Bella really understand what she is getting into?
No, not really. But she knows she can’t live w/o Edward and she wants eternity when he has eternity, also he stays forever 17 while she would get older. She thinks she knows, but there are so many things to consider when you end your live to become a Vampire. But all she can think about is Edward.
Will we ever truly understand why Rose hates her so much?
I guess, no, simply because Bella takes this decision and
What about Edward? Would it be nobler if he just backed off and
left Bella to be human? Or does he deserve to get the girl?
Yes he does deserve her. Why? Because he never wanted this life as a Vampire and struggles with this since the Carlisle changed him. All this “I’m a monster” etc, he believes that. He lives in a house full of love, Esme and Carlisle, Rose and Em, Alice and Jasper. Can you imagine how damn hard this is?? He is alone since 100 years while everyone around him found his/her mate and happiness? Yes he does deserve happiness! And he wanted to be noble when he left her, he left the love of his life so that she can live her life w/o him. Yes he does deserve this girl who run to rescue the man who just left her. They would die for each other, they prove this so yes they are meant for each other!
How do you feel about Esme and Dr. Cullen’s selfish reasons for supporting
Bella’s change?
Well, selfish or not. They are his parents and they want him to be happy and stay with them, they know he would commit suicide if Bella would die. I guess if you put it that way all parents are selfish ;) Imagine who this had tortured them all the years seeing Edward loneliness? They would do anything to make him happy.
And WHAT ABOUT JACOB BLACK?!?
Well, how cares?
Does Bella seem different to you?
In what ways?
She is, I think the time w/o him and this brave decision to rescue him made her even more grown up. And now she starts realizing that Edward loves her just as much as she loves him. She never got it why Edward loves her in the first place, but now she starts realizing that there is not a more or less love, they love each other just with the same strength.
And how in the world will this ever turn out well?
Ohh all will be good, I know this. Edward turns Bella and all live there happily ever after, Wait, we still have 2 more books? WTH!?? ;)
Can Jacob find happiness?
Yes. Maybe in Lea?
Can Bella be truly happy, when she will break Jacob’s heart
and be leaving her family and friends behind?
Tough question, I guess eternity is a long time to get over guilt. But see, it is also a normal process. They are just in high school right know, she would have gone to college soon which means to leave behind her friends anyway. So I wouldn’t care so much about her friends, as hard as it seems. Her family although is something different, if they would fake her death it would kill Charlie. So she has to find a way to do that w/o breaking his heart. But altogether I think she could be truly happy even with this guilt, someday.
And what about Edward Cullen?
If he changes her, can he really live with the guilt?
Yep, because he has Bella who will show him every day that this was the only and best decision they could do. He will get over it!
Will we see a vampy Bella?
Hell yes, I would be mad if not!
AND WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH JACOB BLACK? *winks*
Oh Cutie, Jacob? Really! Yes I feel super bad for him but Edward is back!!?!?! I just think he is super mad, angry, pissed, sad and is full of grief that the Vamps are back and with them Bella is gone for him. He knows that he has no chance whatsoever anymore to get Bella back.
One thing my dear Cutie you didn’t ask, about how I felt about Bella’s reaction to the proposal. Well, thank you for asking now!! Here is my answer:
I though WTF?!! Because she wants eternity with this guy and then she doesn’t want to marry him? How stupid and childish is this? In the whole book she tries to act mature and grown up but this reaction was stupid! “I’m too young” but you’re not too young to die and become a Vampire??! “I don’t believe in marriage” Hell who cares, your Love of Life wants it, is that so hard? And you will freaking spend eternity with this guy this is much more than a marriage !!!
Ok, now I feel better having said that!
Whoa, so many questions…where to begin?
And what about Jacob Black? Um, do we care right now? Edward is here and he’s staying with Bella and he loves her!
How do you feel about his complete disappearance from the last three chapters? Jacob wasn’t in the last 3 chapters?
Where the heck is that skeevy Victoria?! She’s around, probably munching on some tasty critters.
Does Bella really understand what she is getting into? I don’t know if she really knows what she is getting into. She totally recoiled when the Volturi were eating tourists…Edward isn’t that much different from them. But I definitely think she has thought about it at length, but I don’t think she is ready even though she says she is.
Will we ever truly understand why Rose hates her so much? Maybe…
What about Edward? Would it be nobler if he just backed off andleft Bella to be human? Or does he deserve to get the girl? Oh please, please, please! He needs to get the girl! Does he deserve her? Probably not because he was a complete ass by lying to her and leaving her, but I just really want a happily ever after.
How do you feel about Esme and Dr. Cullen’s selfish reasons for supporting Bella’s change? Hmmm…I didn’t really look at their reasons as being selfish…just being a mom and a dad who want the best for their son.
And WHAT ABOUT JACOB BLACK?!? Jacob who?
Does Bella seem different to you? In what ways? Yeah, and I can’t quite put my finger on it. I guess it’s the whole hole in the heart being filled thing. But I like this new Bella…she is kicking ass and taking names. Okay, maybe not exactly, but she is definitely taking a more active role in her life and death. Look at the vote!
And how in the world will this ever turn out well? Either she marries Edward and he turns her or she somehow understands Edward and remains human until the Volturi come for her and someone turns her into a vampire.
Can Jacob find happiness? Um, I don’t care right now?
Can Bella be truly happy, when she will break Jacob’s heart and be leaving her family and friends behind? Yes, she will be sad, but I don’t think it will be anything in comparison to the heartbreak she suffered when Edward left her. She has lived without her mother and father for many years. She was using Jacob and while she has feelings for him, they are not what she has for Edward. And somehow I bet she finds a way to keep her loved ones close.
And what about Edward Cullen? If he changes her, can he really live with the guilt? Oh, I think he would eventually get over it. Plus, I still think that he believes that he has a soul…Bella even called him out on it.
Will we see a vampy Bella? I’m torn…I’m not sure what I want.
AND WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH JACOB BLACK? I guess we have to read the next book…